Interview with Trust Chairman, David Hindley

Last updated : 18 June 2003 By Notts County Mad

Why were you appointed as chairman of the trust?


That really is a question for the other members of the interim board of the Trust to answer. I would suggest that I was proposed (and received unanimous support by those in attendance) for the role of chair because of the hard work I have already put into the running of the Trust, in particular PR responsibilities and communicating with other supporter Trusts.

Professionally, I am a senior lecturer at Nottingham Trent University where I teach on the BA (Hons) Business, Leisure and Sports Education degree programme, and have strong research interests in stakeholding in sport, fan representation, and sports governance. The latter was the subject of my doctorate, which in part examined football and the role national governing bodies; the media, athlete organisations and fan groups play in the administration, organisation and management of the sport. Through this I took an active interest in the emergence of the supporter trust movement and have attended a number of conferences, and seminars hosted by Supporters Direct.

What aims do the trust have with the new owners?

The Trust would like to act as a focal point for contact between the football club and its supporters, encouraging openness and consultation in the club's decision making. NCST aims to set up regular meetings with club officials so that supporters' interests and concerns are effectively communicated to the club, and taken into account in any planning or decision making.

The Trust is keen to develop a constructive relationship with the new owners. We are involved in discussions as to how the Trust/fans may be represented and the possibility of achieving a stake in the football club on behalf of supporters. To this end, the meeting with Sam McEwan last week was a positive first step.

The aims of the Trust as set out in the constitution (available via the Trust website) are as follows:

i. To strengthen the bonds between the club and the community which it serves and to represent the interests of the community in the running of the club;
ii. To benefit present and future members of the community served by the Club by promoting encouraging and furthering the game of football as a recreational facility, sporting activity and focus for community involvement;
iii. To further the development of the game of football nationally and internationally and the upholding of its rules;
iv. To encourage the Club to take proper account of the interests of its supporters and of the community it serves in its decisions;
v. To encourage and promote the principle of supporter representation on the board of any company owning or controlling the Club and ultimately to be the vehicle for democratic elections to the board;
vi. To promote, develop and respect the rights of members of the community served by the Club and people dealing with the Society as set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, having regard in particular to the need to provide information to members and conduct the affairs of the Society in accessible and appropriate ways.

Why weren't members' of the Trust allowed to select who the new Chairman would be?

At present there is an interim board, made up largely of individuals who took a lead role in the formation of the Trust, who were given a  mandate at the official launch of the Trust on April 4th 2003 to form a Supporters Trust. Under the society's rules the chair is chosen by the Society Board be they interim or elected.
The interim board also has the power to delegate responsibilities to committees as it sees fit (within the interim board there are a range of sub-groups, including internal Trust management, community and finance) and may appoint and dismiss the Chair and other members of the board and have power to act in place of the Chair where he/she ceases to act or are unwilling or unable to act.

The interim board will serve until the first AGM and election, which must be held within the first six months of the launch meeting.
Elections will be held annually, and anyone wishing to stand for
election to the Board may do so. In other words I will only be chair for three months, when trust members will have the opportunity to stand for a place on the Trust board, and those elected will then choose the new chair. 

The trust hasn't done alot since it has been formed. What role does the trust have to play within Notts County Football Club?

In the short time that the Trust has been in existence -11 weeks in total - members of the interim board (who are all volunteers) have been active, engaging in a range of activities, which we hope have benefited Trust members and Notts County supporters. These include: producing and distributing 5 newsletters to keep fans aware of events leading up to the takeover; and holding discussions with all key players, for example the City Council, the administrator, prospective bidders, the Football League, and Supporters Direct, to put forward the views and concerns of supporters and to ensure as much information about the proceedings can be made public to the fans.

The Trust acts as a spokesperson for supporters in the media, and has set up an e-mail mailings list for members to ensure they can get immediate information on key events concerning the football club.

We have forged important contacts in key areas, namely Supporters Direct, the Football League, local and national media to ensure that the views of supporters can be taken into account regarding events that may affect our football club. For example, the Trust represented fans' concerns in writing to the Football League to ask that the deadline by which time Notts County had to be out of administration be extended.

Members of the interim board worked on a rescue package for the club in the event that the administrator could not find a suitable buyer, as well as being involved in fund-raising activities. The first of these - a penalty shoot-out at half time during the Chesterfield fixture - raised £640 for the club's Football in theCommunity programme.

The Trust organised a members' forum at Meadow Lane at which there was an opportunity for supporters to ask the interim board and administrator, Paul Finnity questions.

The Trust has also forged close links with other Trusts to exchange information, ideas and best practice. NCST regularly attends meetings of East Midlands Supporters Trust, with representatives from Chesterfield, Derby County, Kettering, Leicester City, Lincoln City and Mansfield Town. We are also developing contacts with Social Enterprise East Midlands (SEEM) to see how Notts County Supporters Trust can contribute towards sport-based community projects in
Nottingham.

How do the new owners feel about you being the new chairman rather than John Thornhill?

I think it would be inappropriate for me to comment on behalf of Frank Strang and Raj Bhatia as to their feelings towards the chair of Notts County Supporters Trust.

What is the point of having younger members of the trust as they will not be able to vote at elections and most of them do not understand all the politics at the club?

You are correct about voting rights - because the Notts County
Supporters Trust is a legal entity, minors aren't allowed to be
full voting members. However, the Trust offers junior membership specifically for those aged under-sixteen, which costs £5 and means young fans can do everything except vote at the AGM and in the elections.

Junior members are vitally important. They represent the next
generation of Notts County supporters, and they will be responsible for taking the Trust forward in years to come. Subsequently, after the AGM it is intended that the board look at the possibility of a youth sub-committee, with a member of the group as an advisor and point of contact to the main board.
More importantly, what would you like the junior section to do?
The Trust would like to hear from junior members - please post any comments on the Trust message board
.

Is there any truth in the rumour that other members of the trust were bribed into supporting the Scardino bid by an offer of a place on the board - is this the reason why there have been resignations over the past two weeks ?

None whatsoever.

A)Why did John Thornhill and Cheryl Thompson resign?
B)Why did Cheryl Thompson have to leave as well as John Thornhill?

The resignations were both personal decisions.

With regards John Thornhill, it was made clear that the Raj Bhatia nd Frank Strang consortium had issues with his leadership of the Trust. They stated publicly that they would not have any dealings with the Trust whilst John Thornhill was involved. He subsequently resigned from the interim board of the Supporters Trust so as not to jeopardise the Trusts' future dealings with the club.


Cheryl Thompson resigned from her position as Vice Chair of the Supporters Trust stating she could not work alongside a regime, which finds it necessary to exert such power over the Trust.

Why do people have to pay to be a member of the trust and where does their money go?

The cost of membership is a Trust decision. According to Supporters Direct "you have to set a subscription rate that at least covers the administration costs". They recommend that it should cost no more than the average price to attend a home match, but with prices as they are at some clubs (i.e. £30 in the Premier League), it us suggested that membership is a relatively small sum to get as many members as possible.

The first pound makes you a shareholder in Notts County Supporters Trust and gives you a vote in all Trust matters. After paying for essential running costs (administration, printing costs etc.) all remaining money goes into an investment fund, which may only be spent with the members' consent. At a number of Trusts this money has been used to buy shares in their football club.

A)Will you be asking the new owners if they will consider looking into returning the Kop to Notts fans? If not can you please do so. This is an old chestnut and I am well aware that the police have in the past issued guidelines to the club that the Kop should house the away supporters. However I am a firm believer that if you transferred the
family end to the corresponding lower third of the Kop the rest will follow. I am sure you are well versed in why we need the Kop back, so I will not burden you with the reasons.

The away support save on maybe the odd occasion e.g. Sheff Wed, will not be that big that the Meadow Lane stand cannot accommodate it. Any over spill I am sure with proper stewarding can be accommodated in
the JS stand.

B
) Will you be asking the new owners if we are going to be returning to the traditional black and white striped shirts? As above, if not can you please do so.

I will make sure that the above issues are raised at the next NCST meeting arranged with Sam McEwan, and that your concerns are passed onto Raj Bhatia and Frank Strang.

The first priority of NCST since it was set up clearly has been
having a club to support next season and as that becomes more secure, we can start debating what issues we want to push - whether it is replica shirts, season tickets, bond holders, home fans in the Kop and so on. It is up to all the members to decide what the priorities are, and just as importantly, help out in achieving them. If the members want to `campaign' for the club to use the Kop for home supporters then we hope you would help out. It is your club and it is your Trust.

If you have any suggestions then please use the message board on the Trust website, where there is a section designated for members' ideas and what you would like to see the Trust doing.

CLICK HERE to go to the Trust message board.

I have to travel a long way to get to Meadow Lane, and long may I do so, but it means I can't attend trust meetings if they are held midweek. I realise you can't please everyone, but will it be possible for some meetings to be held on Friday night, or even Saturday morning, before a home game?

I will put forward your concerns when the next members' forum is being arranged. The Trust wishes to be inclusive and will consider any proposal that allows as many supporters as possible to be involved. That said it is worth pointing out that the official launch of the Trust was held on a Friday evening, and that the number of fans attending Trust meetings at Meadow Lane has been excellent.

We will continue to ensure that the minutes of public Trust
meetings are accessible via the Trust website, and e-mailed to Trust members.

So far trust members haven't been very well informed about what is going off behind closed doors, why aren't we being kept informed?

Notts County Supporters Trust believes that supporters need to be kept as fully informed about developments as possible. To this end, we have held a forum where members could ask Paul Finnity and the Trust board questions; as well as producing and distributing newsletters, regular e-mails to members and publicising Trust activities through the local media.

There needs to be openness and transparency about the club's
future activities. The Trust is ideally placed to give supporters the voice that they require. We are a democratic supporters' organisation whose main concerns are the continued survival of Notts County and the fans involvement in this. NCST aims to build a meaningful relationship between the fans and the club through constructive dialogue.

However, interim board members are bound to some extent by a degree of confidentiality regarding board discussions and in particular discussions with club officials. This is an extremely complex area where representatives of the Trust must have a sense of propriety and avoid giving out information that could damage the day-to-day activity of the club as a whole. At the same time, members of the interim board need to maintain the maximum possible openness with the Trust membership. I personally believe that there should be a transparent relationship from the outset where the members fully understand the degree to which board members feel that they can be open.

Most fans wanted the Strang and Bhatia bid to takeover the club, why didn't the Trust represent that opinion?

The simple answer is that the Trust wished to remain neutral in the takeover process, largely because we would have to work with the new owners and even when the bids had been formally handed in, the identity of the successful party was unclear. This stance was adopted after much discussion, particularly with other supporter trusts that have been in a similar situation. For example, York City Supporters Trust initially backed the `wrong' party and consequentlylost a great deal of credibility, and damaged their relationship with other interested parties.

What do you actually do as Chairman?

In my capacity of chair it is my responsibility to `chair'
the meetings of the interim board, and I am usually the first point of contact with regards dealings with the media. I am also the PR officer for the Trust and subsequently I am responsible for producing press releases, news items on the Trust website, newsletters and so on.

What was said at the meeting between you and the new owners?

The aims of the meeting were to set out the Trusts' objectives,
and to discover how the Trust can help the club and how the club can help the Trust. Naturally, until the takeover is complete, discussions about future plans remain at an early stage. However, the opening of communications and hopes that this will be the first in a series of meetings and that a constructive relationship with the new owners can be developed encourages the Trust.


In terms of what was said, the Trust representatives put forward the case for supporter involvement and discussed ways that this may be manifest - for example, fan representation on the board, fans forums and meetings with supporters. The role that the Trust could play in developing links between the club and its community was also emphasised, as well as stressing the importance of `inclusive' programmes - for example, the continuation of free entry to fans under-sixteen, and effective use of `community corner' in the Jimmy Sirrel Stand.

Underpinning the meeting was the issue regarding how the Trust and the club can work together, both in promoting the club and furthering community and supporter involvement. Personally, I was encouraged that Sam McEwan was in agreement with the aims of the Trust and recognised the importance of two-way communication between the club
and its fans. This represents a sound foundation on which to
hopefully build a positive and constructive relationship.

What were your first impressions of Sam McEwan when you met him?

My own impression of Sam McEwan is that he is a frank-speaking Scotsman, who has an interest in football. During the meeting he was friendly, and willing to discuss a range of issues.

A) Do you think we are financially safe as a football club for the next few years?

B) Do you fear for the future of Notts County?

Football finances are in a parlous state, and the fact that Notts
County had run up debts reportedly in excess of £6 million
suggests that in the club's recent history it has been run beyond itsmeans.

It is apparent that the club cannot be completely reliant on
promotion, cup runs, broadcasting revenue, or a rich benefactor to finance spiralling wage costs.

One hopes that the takeover will put Notts County on a sound
financial footing and that lessons will be learnt from
administration. The conditions of the takeover imposed by both the administrator, Paul Finnity and the City Council (the holders of the ground lease) suggest that the new owners have the necessary finances to secure the short-term future of Notts County Football Club. With regards the mid to long-term, it is difficult to predict whether Notts County will still be playing at Meadow Lane in ten years time or which division we will be playing. Similarly, it is an impossible task to forecast with any great authority that the football club will be in financially secure state. What is clear is that the number of news stories of clubs falling into difficulties is increasing, with Barnsley, Wimbledon and Oldham Athletic the latest to express fears of liquidation. Unless there is a sea change in the way that football clubs are run and more equitable distribution of money from the
Premier League downwards to the Football League and grassroots development, tales of administration and mismanagement will continue.

Football clubs facing bankruptcy is not a new phenomenon. Indeed, supporters rallying round to save their club have happened repeatedly in the past - most recently at York City and Huddersfield. In both these cases supporter trusts have played a significant role not only in raising money but demanding a say in the way their clubs are run.

The fear of liquidation at Meadow Lane has now abated, but NCST is still vitally important in ensuring that the interests of the community and supporters are represented, and assisting fans to influence the direction of the club.

When do you plan to hold an open' evening so questions from the members can be asked to the Panel?

The issue of a fans' forum was raised during last week's
meeting with Sam McEwan. It is my understanding that the new owners wish to host an open evening once the Chairman, the Chief Executive and the board of directors are in place, when they can inform supporters of their plans for Notts County.

Any other other business...

The idea of Supporters' Trusts is now firmly entrenched and the success of fan groups up and down the country demonstrate that the ordinary supporter should, and more importantly can have a greater say in how their club is run.

The Trust was not just set up to ensure that fans' interests were
represented in the takeover process - we are here for the
long-term.

The formation of Notts County Supporters Trust means a stronger and more influential voice for the fans that are, after all, the real lifeblood and custodians of the club. I cannot emphasise too strongly how important it is for as many supporters to become involved as possible and to spread the word to friends, family and workmates at every opportunity. Membership is already 1100 and still growing.

Whilst this is far greater than we had originally expected, we are not resting on our laurels, and we intend to try and increase the membership so that as many Notts fans as possible are members of the Trust. To this end we have co-opted Andy Belfield on the trust board to lead a membership recruitment and retention sub-group.

The Trust is still very new. During the takeover process we have been in the background in case the unthinkable happened. Thankfully the future of Notts County is now more secure and we can now begin to look to build the long-term future of the Trust.

The Trust Board will lead that process but help from many other members is needed if we are to make Notts County Supporters Trust successful. It is important then that we have feedback from our members, who are can write, e-mail or post using the Trust message board: <
http://nottstrust.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x>.

Finally, thank you to NCM for the interview, and for your help in publicising Trust activities.

With thanks to David Hindley for taking the time out to answer these questions.